[TECHNIQUE & INFORMATION] Ce qu'il faut savoir sur Tekken 6

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Re: [TECHNIQUE & INFORMATION] Ce qu'il faut savoir sur Tekken 6

Messagede devil_panther » 13 Avr 2010 à 18h17

Belle video ca donne des idées :grin:
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Re: [TECHNIQUE & INFORMATION] Ce qu'il faut savoir sur Tekken 6

Messagede G@$p@R » 08 Juin 2010 à 14h02

TarMa2k1 a écrit:il y a un post qui explique les differentes manières de se relever et dans quel situation (et intéret) utiliser chacune d'elle?


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Tekken Zaibatsu a écrit: Getting Up From the Ground
Getting up from the ground is a question that a lot of people have been asking me about lately, and something a lot of new players don't understand, which causes them to get up in a risky way and eat another combo. Not fun in a game where 2 combos can put you into danger of a KO. Being able to get back to standing properly can save you a lot of damage from float into B! combos and other damaging oki and is essential for high level play. Here are some basics on getting up from the ground:

Teching
Teching, or tech rolling, also called ukemi, is used to quickly roll out to a standing position after being knocked down. Though it can be dangerous in certain situations, this is quite useful, as it bypasses the grounded position. There are 3 types of techs:

-tech roll(side): This is done by hitting a button the instant you land to sideways. 1_2 rolls to the background, 3_4 rolls to the foreground(towards the screen). Using 1_2 vs. 3_4 is only a matter of preference, but you can use it to roll away from a wall. The downside of using a tech roll is that if you tech close enough to the opponent, you are forced to react to the opponents next attack. There are certain setups called tech traps that can be used to catch opponents who tech roll. Such an example is Anna's d+1+2 unblockable. After certain juggles or floats (d+4,1 being the most notorious), Anna can do her d+1+2 unblockable and if you tech roll you will get hit by the unblockable. Kuma has similar traps with his unblockable.

-Back tech: This is done by holding B as you hit the ground. This causes you to roll backwards and end in a standing position. This is useful to avoid followup ground hits, or avoid the mixup an opponent might try if you were to tech to the side. The downside to this is that if you back tech too close, the opponent can dash in and either float combo you out of your back tech, or dash in and hit you with a mid move, as there are frames towards the end of the back tech that leave you ducking. Also, if you get knocked far away, a backroll tech may put you in range for the opponent to use an unblockable running shoulder tackle.

-Kip tech: Done by holding F as you hit the ground. This causes you to do a kip up as you hit the ground, kicking the opponent as you get back to your feet. Not used very often, but can be used to interrupt an opponents oki.

Note that there are some situations such as bounces and most throws that do not allow you any sort of tech. There are also certain moves like Bryan's ff+2, Feng d/f+1 on crouchers, etc. that leave you in a techable state.


Next, the different grounded positions and some terms.

Grounded positions
FUHA/FUFT/KND - Face up head away or face up feet towards. The basic grounded position lying on your back.

FUHT/FUFA/PLD - Face up, heat towards or face up feet away. Also called Play Dead as this is the position Lei's moved of the same name (d+3+4) puts you in.

FDHA/FDFT - Face down, head away/feet towards. Pretty self explanatory.

FDHT/FDFA/SLD - I'm pretty sure you get the gist of it now.

off-axis - When you are lying down and you are not straight head towards or head away. Basically if you are on the ground with your side turned to your opponent. Some moves that don't normally hit grounded opponents can hit oponents on the ground if they are off-axis. Examples include Roger ff+2 or Devil Jin b+4 (I think it only hits off-axis right?)

Ground Options
Alright, now let's look at some of these grounded positions and look at your options for getting back to standing.

FUHA:
You have the most options from this position, which is good, because it's the ground position you're left in most often. Note that to do these moves, you have to be in a fully grounded position and not tech.

-U (Quickstand): The fastest and safest way to get up from here is simply to tap up, then hold back or d/b to block. This allows you to stand in place and immediately block. In some situations however, quickstanding like this will get you floated, mostly after combos that end in a slamdown. For example, quickstanding after certain Nina combos, her d+4,1 will float you and she can continue with another combo.

-B (Roll back): You roll backwards. Has the same problems of being floated during this, especially since it's slower than quickstanding. However it can be useful to move you out of the way of some grounded hits. Be careful not to use this if you are very close to your opponent as you will usually be hit out of it.

-F (Roll Forward): This isn't very useful in most situations. However, certain moves that leave you grounded and far away from the opponent (Armor King's fff+2+4 for example) may give you some use for this.

-(1_d+1)Sideroll: This is a roll to the side. It can move you out of the way of linear ground attacks. Hit 1 to roll into the background, d+1 to roll into the foreground. After you hit 1_d+1, you can backroll (which gets you some space) forward roll, getup kick (3_4), stay on the ground (hold D), or quickstand (press nothing after 1_d+1 and you will automatically get up.

-Kip up attack: Done be pressing b+3+4 or b+4~3(this version executes a frame faster). The generic version of this the character does a rollback onto their shoulders then kicks up and forward returning to their feet. Knocks down on hit. This leaves you vulnerable if blocked. Other versions (King, Armor King, Roger) leave you in backturned position. Other characters (Marduk, Paul, Steve, Yoshi) Do a kip-up in place then dive forward, which is safe but takes a very long time to perform and is easily sidestepped.

-Diving attack: This can be done by rolling either backwards or forwards then pressing f+1+2. It is a mid dive attack that is somewhat slow and also punishable unless it is blocked below the knees. Knocks down on hit. You can use this to trick some opponent by rolling back then diving forward as they give chase.

-Ankle kick: done by pressing d+3_4. This is a quick low ankle kick from a lying position followed by an automatic quickstand. If blocked it is punishable usually by launch and can be low parried as well. On hit it allows you to safely stand. Very useful for interrupting an opponents attack, but if you whiff/miss you'll pay dearly. Very short ranged, which really only makes it useful for interrupting a close enemy's attack.

-Getup kick: Done by pressing 3 for a low kick that allows float combos on CH, or a mid kick that knocks down. Both are unsafe on block. A slower attack option, this gives a mid/low mixup and can interrupt opponent's ground game.

Misc: Some opponents have special moves that they can perform from this position. Jack-6 d+1+2, Ganryu 1+2, Kuma 1+2, Wang has some sort of item move, Lei has several. There are probably more.


FDHT
Pretty similar to the above position, only quickstanding and getup kicks take slightly longer, and you don't have use of the kip-up or ankle kicks. Some characters (Marduk, Kuma, Dragunov) have moves they can do from this position.


FUHT
Another common knockdown position. This is slightly more vulnerable than FUHA, and requires some special attention.

-U (Quickstand): As with FUHA, this option is still available, but in this position it is rather risky. the reason being is that from both this and FDHA, you will stand up with your back turned and unable to block immediately. This is unadvisable if the opponent is anywhere near you in this position. Standing up in this position will often cause you to get hit in the back and become backturned. Some characters have specific strategies to knock you down in FUHT and then hit you in the back with a string/launches as you try to quickstand.

-B (Backroll): This also rises in BT position and is subject to the same problems quickstand is here. However, since you're rolling away, some shorter ranged moves that would hit you BT while quickstanding will miss if you backroll. However, you are vulnerable for a longer time than with quickstand.

-F (Forward roll): You should almost never do this. Only do if the opponent is far away and you want to quickly close space so as not to set up their unblockable tackle.

-Sideroll: Basically the same as the FUHA version.

-Getup Kicks (3_4): These are actually a little faster from this position than FUHA. Other than that they are the same.


FDHA
-Pretty much the same as the above.


***Quick note for all positions*** Tapping 2 while doing any grounded movement options (B or F rolls or quickstand) will cause you to do them a few frames faster. While it's not generally very useful, to can get you out of some situations that normal B, F, or quickstand can't get you out of.


Situation Specific Getups
On the Wall
Some tips for getting up when near a wall. Never, ever, ever backroll when near a wall! Backrolling near a wall essentially is just rolling in place, leaving you vulnerable the whole time to B! and wall combos. Usually your best bet on the wall is to tech and then defend the opponents next move accordingly. There are only a few cases where teching is not advised (such as against Bryan, since he can hit you with 1+3+4 taunt then get a free wallsplat into combo). If you are unable to tech, such as after a slamdown on the wall, you have a few choices:

-Quickstand: Same as away from the wall. The only thing you need to be careful of is that when next to a wall, quick hits like generic d+4 and moves that normally hit grounded can pick you up and put you back on the wall. Certain characters like Lee have setups that slam you down, then re-combo you if you try to stand. Be careful of these. Otherwise this is usually a good choice.

-Sideroll: This is generally one of the safest options on the wall. Puts you out of the way of some grounded attacks and edges you away from the wall. But, it also leaves you on the ground and unable to defend.

-Stay grounded: Some opponents will throw out a move that only hits a character that quickstands or siderolls. Sometimes just lying there will get you out of a bad situation.

-Ankle kick: Sometimes a quick ankle kick is enough to interrupt the opponents oki and allow you to get back to your feet. Just be aware that if you whiff or it's blocked, you'll be eating a wall combo for big damage.



General Getup Advice
As with many parts of this game, there is never a way to get up that will work in 100% of situations. Some moves are useful at certain times and are a poor choice for others. If you find yourself being picked up and comboed when you try to stand, it may be best to just stay down and eat a ground hit. Another thing to keep in mind is not to be predictable. Don't always tech roll or back roll. When you get up in the same way every time, it's very easy for your opponent to pick up on this and punish you for your predictability. Keep mixing it up so that your opponent has to keep adjusting his own strategy.
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Re: [TECHNIQUE & INFORMATION] Ce qu'il faut savoir sur Tekken 6

Messagede OldBoy » 08 Juin 2010 à 16h19

C'est cool ça! Tu traduis? :tease:
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Re: [TECHNIQUE & INFORMATION] Ce qu'il faut savoir sur Tekken 6

Messagede devil_panther » 19 Juin 2010 à 19h23

Salut :grin:
Dites les gars vous pourrais pas expliquer quand stepper exactement parceque je pense que je connais pas tout les moment ou l'on peut stepper merci :thanku:
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Re: [TECHNIQUE & INFORMATION] Ce qu'il faut savoir sur Tekken 6

Messagede Danny Brown » 06 Juil 2010 à 22h34

Salut.

L'un d'entre vous pourrait-il expliquer les fondements d'un bon jeu de poke, svp?

Merci d'avance.

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Re: [TECHNIQUE & INFORMATION] Ce qu'il faut savoir sur Tekken 6

Messagede Danny Brown » 19 Juil 2010 à 21h25

Bon, je vais poser une question moins compliqué à répondre.

Je suis entrain de me chercher un perso autre que Roger car celui-ci ne me convient pas(jeu de punition trop faible). Je cherche un perso dans le même style que Lee, à savoir un perso axé sur la défense et la punition. Quel perso pourrait s'en rapprocher?
Je pensais à Feng ou Jin, ainsi qu'aux Mishima. Quelqu'un a d'autres idées, du moment que ce n'est pas Law? :grin:
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Re: [TECHNIQUE & INFORMATION] Ce qu'il faut savoir sur Tekken 6

Messagede NightZ » 19 Juil 2010 à 21h57

Paulo , Lars , Kazuya ... Après y a des perso vraiment bon en défense mais qui sont rarement joué de cette façon , étant bon en attaque également...

Un Bruce , Alisa , etc...

Les fondements d'un bon jeu de poke (selon moi!):

-Des attaques relativement rapide , moins c'est visible , mieux c'est.

-Safe , ou peu risqué c'est impératif.

-Qui donne un avantage conséquent/suffisant en "hit".

-Qui laisse le perso libre c'est mieux , mais c'est pas impératif , je m'explique. d4 de Lars , ou d4 de Lili , etc laisse le personnage en crouch que le coup soit bloquer ou non. Ce "Jail" rend les déplacements incertains et lent malgré l'avantage en hit du coup. Après un d4 de ces perso , y a moins d'options , bloquer ou faire une attaque "WS" ou remettre un d4/d1 etc.
Mais db3 de Bryan ou autre , laisse en crouch également , seulement l'avantage et les dégâts sont très bon. (Faut peser le pour et le contre)

-Les 3 type sont , je pense nécessaire dans un bon jeu de poke , (high , mid , low ). tout dépend de l'arsenal qu'a à offrir le personnage joué. Un Miguel peut éventuellement négligé les high , vue son df1...

-Le poke n'est pas un pressing , faut que ca reste réfléchi et fluide. A tout moment ou presque tu dois pouvoir repartir dans les déplacements ou insérer une phase dedans. Le but c'est surtout de gratter la barre sans prendre d'énormes risques (même si dans T6 les risques sont risible).

C'est comme ca que je vois le truc , sachant que c'est une grosse partie du combat contre un adversaire qui sait se déplacer de façon "safe". Sur ce domaine , tout les perso ne se valent pas , mais ceux qui sont moins bien équipé peuvent compensé en "balançant" , c'est ça tekken 6...

Après si y a d'autres avis , ca serais intéressant de lire.
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Re: [TECHNIQUE & INFORMATION] Ce qu'il faut savoir sur Tekken 6

Messagede Danny Brown » 19 Juil 2010 à 22h43

Ton post est très instructif. Merci beaucoup NightZ.

Donc Kazuya peut se jouer de manière défensive. Pour Paul je m'y attendais moins. Je le pensais plutôt bulldog à fond. Pareil pour Lars. Après ça dépend du joueur qui le joue, bien entendu.

Je pense que je mes choix vont se porter sur Feng, Jin et Kazuya. Surtout Feng.
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Re: [TECHNIQUE & INFORMATION] Ce qu'il faut savoir sur Tekken 6

Messagede Crashman » 19 Juil 2010 à 23h33

Oui Kazuya c'est vrai qu'il est défensif,il a de bons punishs(b+1,2marche aussi sur le 4 a la relevée de l'adversaire(KND,Wall Splat),1+2 même si il sert pas a grand chose,1,1,2(KND);2,2;EWGF bien sûr...Même si en général il est joué offensivement.
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Re: [TECHNIQUE & INFORMATION] Ce qu'il faut savoir sur Tekken 6

Messagede JayceeChris » 20 Juil 2010 à 16h38

Yep, Kazuya est probablement le meilleur puniseur du jeu.
Jin a d'excellent punish aussi, 2,4 (KND/Wall splat) 1+2 (KND/Wall Splat)

Apres je pense que ca serait intéressant de faire une "tier list punishers" et de détaillé tout ca.
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Re: [TECHNIQUE & INFORMATION] Ce qu'il faut savoir sur Tekken 6

Messagede JayceeChris » 27 Sep 2010 à 15h58

Yo, bon je commence serieusement à travailler les déplacements depuis peu, je commence par les sidesteps.
Je connais quelques manipes qui permettent de faire des sidestep, (Il en existe peut etre d'autres ?) :
- d~d
- d~D (sidewalk)
- f,df,d
Le gros problème est que je suis souvent (pour pas dire toujours) touché par un coup qui pourrait etre sidesteppé sans probleme, alors probleme de timing, mauvaise manipulation?
J'aurais voulu savoir quel est la meilleur manip. et moyen de sidesteppé ?

Merci d'avance.
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Re: [TECHNIQUE & INFORMATION] Ce qu'il faut savoir sur Tekken 6

Messagede Crashman » 27 Sep 2010 à 19h29

Pas vraiment de meilleur manip,c'est juste que certains coups traquent bien,et faut anticiper les coups de l'ladversaire quand tu veux stepper.(Genre tu mets un coup safe,après tu step...)
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Re: [TECHNIQUE & INFORMATION] Ce qu'il faut savoir sur Tekken 6

Messagede JayceeChris » 27 Sep 2010 à 20h36

D'accord donc en gros ne jamais tenter de sidestepper au pif apres un dash par exemple ou lorsque tu est figé en garde, je comprend un peu plus le truc maintenant que ca fait 2,3 jours que je suis dessus, merci beaucoup pour ta réponse.
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Re: [TECHNIQUE & INFORMATION] Ce qu'il faut savoir sur Tekken 6

Messagede kaizokun » 02 Nov 2010 à 19h28

Bonjour j'ai une petite question concernant les frames data, car j' ai l' impression qu' a haut niveau si on a pas compris le concept on peut retourner jouer aux billes avec tout le respect que j' ai pour les billes ...
bon j' ai compris que ca parlait des avantage ou des désavantages que l'ont pouvait avoir après un coup donné à l'adversaire en nombre de frames , vous me dirai c'est déjà pas mal , mais à quoi correspond le + et le - ? bah oui sans ça je suis dans la merde ... je crois avoir compris +15 en bloc ca veut dire que j'ai un avantage de 15 frame si l' adversaire bloc le coup et -10 en counter j'ai perdu 10 frames si je touche . C'est ca ou l'option bille reste ouverte ?
Tout à l'heure je me suis mangé un pressing de kazuya (marauder au bout de 100 victoires on doit pas vivre sur la même planète) et j'ai absolument rien pu faire, toujours un coup bien placé :huhuh: :axed:
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Re: [TECHNIQUE & INFORMATION] Ce qu'il faut savoir sur Tekken 6

Messagede Head-hunterz08 » 03 Nov 2010 à 00h29

Non l'ami tu pars dans la mauvaise direction :angely:
Quand tu balances un coup , il y a plusieurs possibilités :

-whiff : tu as lancer le coup à coté ( ou trop loin )là c'est pas bon !

-ou quand tu le touche,et la sa se decline en plusieurs possiblités aussi

-En block: l'adversaire s'est défendu
-En hit: l'adversaire ce l'est pris
-En counter: non seulement il se l'est pris mais en attaquant en prime

Les coups de tekken les plus rapides sortent en 10 Frames (1 ou carré):
On va reprendre le schema ci-dessus

-block: tu seras à...au pif -6Frames (donc impunissable)
-hit: tu seras à...au pif +2Frames (donc avantager de 2F par rapport a l'adversaire qui,et si vous faites en instantanement un 1 (Carré) tu le toucheras avant)
-counter:offre encore plus de Frames positives ou mieux, le stun...

Les "meilleurs" coups sont donc ceux qui te laisse á -9 ou ceux qui te mette en +

Tout cela à déja été dit (et mieux que moi :p) mais bon jmennuis au boulot ^^
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